WyomingBound

DL 1870 today, scheduled flight GCM to ATL......once the inbound flight landed app automatically updated that the flight would be diverting to MCO on the return......is it a crew issue? I don't think DL has a crew base in MCO so did not figure that would be normal and surely they would not schedule a diversion that far away from ATL. It surely is not a fuel issue either because the 737-800 range is much longer than even the GCM to ATL.

Would appreciate anyone's thought or input.

sydneyracquelle

Weather here in ATL was pretty nasty mid-morning with tornado warnings.

turkeyRIOO

Most likely a weight limitation on takeoff that would not allow enough fuel for a divert with ATL forecasting IFR conditions

The Situation

Guessing weather related due to the heavy t'storms moving across the South. Looking at all of the posted delays, they are expecting to not be able to go around the storm, so they will get the flight as close as they can to ATL and continue on when t'storms pass.

Jeff767

The crew had a 2:20 minute taxi time outbound from ATL due to weather. This likely put them over the hard time FAA block hour limit If they flew the return to ATL. Scheduled into MCO which would keep them under the limit. Crew likely sent to MCO from Atlanta to swap out. There would be no weight issues on that length flight.

Intl359Widget

Ding Ding Winner Chicken Dinner! Crew is most likely over the max block time but not necessarily the FDP.

WyomingBound

Well said Jeff......that is gonna exactly be it! Just strange....fly the flight often (currently in GCM but not on the particular flight) and NEVER seen anything like that happen before.....yes during the summertime there are diversions due to storms, however not a "scheduled" diversion such as this and if they could get a flight crew there probably is plenty of gate space mid day. LIkely the original crew even would fly back. I know when I flew ATL to GCM the flight attendant crew (ATL based) crew lead said he didn't even have a bag with him.....the crew flew ATl-GCM-ATL.......he said "I got nothing on me but my wallet, car keys, and passport" so if I get stranded in GCM I am gonna have to go buy some clothes.

Jeff767

The actual flight time if the crew originated in ATL that morning would have been under the limit even with the delay. The pilot contract however requires a minimum pay per day worked that would exceed the pay flying it as a turn. The company does not like this as they are paying what is referred to as credit time which is pay without revenue. As a result the trip is normally tacked onto the back side of a multi day trip often referred to as a penalty lap by pilots. They might start their morning in DTW going to ATL and then fly the GCM turn before release. Longer island flights are often flown as simply a straight 1 day turn since they don’t generate credit. The FAA limit on daily block time is 9 hours. Delta generally leaves a 1 hour buffer to handle delays. 2:20 minutes however pushed them over.
MCO is the logical place to recrew since there is hourly service from ATL and the further North they can get the flight legally the more time they have to position a crew. It’s also possibly they covered the MCO-ATL leg with a crew already in MCO via reroute. Not the preferred solution as it leads to another uncovered flight which can snowball but sometimes allows them to keep all flights ontime.
The 9 hour rule is a hard limit that can’t be waived. If on arrival into GCM the flight time already flown that day plus the scheduled time home was 9:01 or greater they could not fly to ATL and the flight had to be short stopped. If it’s going to be close they will wait until they get the exact block time. Once the aircraft blocks in they will implement plan B if needed. Note that if they would have been under 9 hours say 8:55 they could depart for ATL and once airborne could continue even if airborne delays occurred.
The flight attendants have a shorter minimum day so they normally fly GCM as a turn out of ATL.

kmersh

I cannot speak to much of what you wrote, but
MCO is a crew base for DL.

Jeff767

MCO is not a pilot crew base. It is a flight attendant base.

emma dog

Does anyone know the logic behind non-hub flight attendant bases? What's the benefit to DL to have bases outside their hubs? Thinking of MCO and FLL for this example...

CVG makes sense that it was a hub once upon a time and there might be internal politics behind keeping it open.

jwhuffman

I can confirm as stated...MCO is a DL crew base....as my ATL-DEN flight on Thursday morning had an MCO based crew.

Jwhuffman

JAXPax

Varies a little airline to airline (those with unions sometimes are limited by the contract as to how many crew bases or "satellites" thereof they can have)...

But a place like MCO or FLL for an airline like Delta makes sense on a cost basis as they have large amount of overnighting aircraft and crew. Crew based there don't need hotels. I worked for a different airline and (until Covid put the halt on it) the station I managed which had about 45 flights per day and 8-9 overnighting or redeye arrival aircraft was slated to open as a crew base as the company used something like 150 hotel rooms a night. That's about $3MM a year on the low end. Additionally staffing as many originators as possible with local crews starting a trip mitigates crew related delays... not as many crew rest issues, which is important for a MCO/FLL feeding a lot of passengers and aircraft (and pilots) into the hubs first thing in the morning. There are also the extraneous things like tax incentives for basing employees within the state (Florida does like to do this) and gives more flexibility with routings that don't necessarily touch a hub immediately.

Jeff767

Flight attendant bases can make financial sense when pilot bases don’t. They have different work rules and are qualified on all aircraft types. A pilot is qualified on one aircraft type in one seat only. Since network often changes aircraft used on routes seasonally or often at a whim constantly transferring pilots around to cover it gets very expensive. In the end most pilot basing is at the major hubs. Flight attendant basing can be far more flexible.