Revenue management JFK-LAX/SFO nonstops
Mar 17, 2018, 10:31 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 112
Revenue management JFK-LAX/SFO nonstops
As a weekly flier on AA's JFK-LAX/SFO transcons I had the following observations/questions about their yield management:
- AA seems to upgrade Y -> J to J2 availability the day before the flight it seems, based on my experiences. This makes it difficult to change flights when ticketed in J or to be rebooked on a different flight during irrops.
- Why doesn't AA oversell J into the F cabin? Flights are frequently F7AXJ0. This would seem to be an additional revenue opportunity
- As noted anecdotally here F can fill up with non-revs/mileage tickets rather than revenue passengers. Couldn't AA offer complimentary upgrades from J to F for CKs first?
- AA could sell more I tickets to compete with B6, which generally has lower fares and a superior Mint product
Last edited by Allusha; Mar 17, 2018 at 12:13 pm
Mar 17, 2018, 11:06 am
#3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
As a weekly flier on AA's JFK-LAX/SFO transcons I had the following observations/questions about their yield management:
- AA seems to upgrade Y -> J to J2 availability the day before the flight it seems, based on my experiences. This makes it difficult to change flights when ticketed in J or to be rebooked on a different flight during irrops.
- Why doesn't AA oversell J into the F cabin? Flights are frequently F7AXJ0. This would seem to be an additional revenue opportunity
- As noted anecdotally here F can fill up with non-revs/mileage tickets rather than revenue passengers. Couldn't AA offer complimentary upgrades from J to F for CKs first?
Why? Aren't there enough perks for CK's already?
For some of us, the preferred way to fly in the F cabin is by using Business Extra upgrades or award redemptions. Those empty F seats provide us the opportunity to exercise that strategy.
In fact, I'm thankful that the ability to get into the F cabin exists. It's quiet and peaceful, and you have the opportunity to enjoy FFD at the LAX and JFK airports. The current combination of 3-cabin aircraft and superior lounges makes AA very attractive to some of us that travel transcontinental and like to have options for getting into the very front of the plane. YMMV.
Mar 17, 2018, 11:43 am
#4
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Mar 17, 2018, 11:48 am
#5
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Don't forget that you also have international connections where a late upgrade is going to someone flying XXX/JFK/SFO on a very high value J ticket.
Mar 17, 2018, 2:14 pm
#6
Join Date: Apr 2003
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That's directly contrary to my experience on any LAX/JFK flights except on Saturdays (I can't really address SFO/JFK) . I am an EXP with 25-30k in annual spend and am almost always at the top of upgrade lists. Except for a couple of trips on Saturdays, I haven't cleared before the gate on any of these flights even though I am usually 1 or 2 on the list. I'll watch the flights on EF and they'll go from J7 to J0/1/2 or from J1 to J5 within two hours of the flight. I think there are a lot of J fliers (and my impression is many with corporate contracts that permit this) on this route who change or buy their tickets at the last minute and that RM limits pre-gate upgrades.
Mar 17, 2018, 2:37 pm
#7
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Mar 17, 2018, 2:54 pm
#8
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I read something about that every once in a while. However, I understand that there are a number of corporate contracts in the entertainment industry that provide for F on a three class plane. Additionally, there are some executives that have clauses in their employment contracts providing for this.
Mar 17, 2018, 3:05 pm
#9
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
I read something about that every once in a while. However, I understand that there are a number of corporate contracts in the entertainment industry that provide for F on a three class plane. Additionally, there are some executives that have clauses in their employment contracts providing for this.
Mar 17, 2018, 4:39 pm
#10
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,769
As someone who has never been CK, will not be CK in the foreseeable future, and has no close connections to anyone who is a CK...I would say, uh, not really. In my understanding, the benefits that CKs get are mostly fluff: hand-holding, SWUs that they probably can't use, and IRROPs treatment. As a mere peasant who is supposed to be in awe of the aspirational CK benefits, whenever I see them written about, they strike me as notably underwhelming.
I'd think that bumping customers who spend a gajillion dollars with AA up into unsold, unused F seats at the expense of some award tickets would be, saying this as someone at whose expense the loss of said award seats is likely to come, a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
I'd think that bumping customers who spend a gajillion dollars with AA up into unsold, unused F seats at the expense of some award tickets would be, saying this as someone at whose expense the loss of said award seats is likely to come, a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Mar 17, 2018, 5:15 pm
#11
Join Date: Feb 2013
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I read something about that every once in a while. However, I understand that there are a number of corporate contracts in the entertainment industry that provide for F on a three class plane. Additionally, there are some executives that have clauses in their employment contracts providing for this.
AA has 12 JFK-LAX flights daily with 10 F seats each. Which means 120 F seats daily. How many of those seats everyday are occupied with paid first class fare? I heard argument about corporate executive, but likely that alone is not enough to fill 120 seats every single day. There are only finite number of corporate executives out there, and they do not travel every single day, and they travel all over the world, not only on NYC-LA/SF.
Mar 17, 2018, 5:36 pm
#12
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Aspen, CO
Posts: 792
I say bump J to F for CK/Full-Fare J. I've had way too many terrible F experiences with lazy/entitled non-revs.
Out of eight F SFO/LAX-JFK flights this calendar year, 7 of 8 flights had <3 pax booked in F (whether it was paid, miles, upgrade, not sure) and the rest filled with non-rev. Only one flight was 8/10 filled with rev pax and that was a Monday afternoon JFK-SFO.
Out of eight F SFO/LAX-JFK flights this calendar year, 7 of 8 flights had <3 pax booked in F (whether it was paid, miles, upgrade, not sure) and the rest filled with non-rev. Only one flight was 8/10 filled with rev pax and that was a Monday afternoon JFK-SFO.
Mar 17, 2018, 5:57 pm
#13
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Posts: 1,896
As someone who has never been CK, will not be CK in the foreseeable future, and has no close connections to anyone who is a CK...I would say, uh, not really. In my understanding, the benefits that CKs get are mostly fluff: hand-holding, SWUs that they probably can't use, and IRROPs treatment. As a mere peasant who is supposed to be in awe of the aspirational CK benefits, whenever I see them written about, they strike me as notably underwhelming.
I'd think that bumping customers who spend a gajillion dollars with AA up into unsold, unused F seats at the expense of some award tickets would be, saying this as someone at whose expense the loss of said award seats is likely to come, a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
I'd think that bumping customers who spend a gajillion dollars with AA up into unsold, unused F seats at the expense of some award tickets would be, saying this as someone at whose expense the loss of said award seats is likely to come, a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...thread-43.html
....which details significant "fluff" for CKs. Further details were probably available at the "March Mingle".
Mar 17, 2018, 6:02 pm
#14
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,769
As a fellow Plebeian flyer, may I direct you to the following link:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...thread-43.html
....which details significant "fluff" for CKs. Further details were probably available at the "March Mingle".
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...thread-43.html
....which details significant "fluff" for CKs. Further details were probably available at the "March Mingle".
Mar 17, 2018, 6:24 pm
#15
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Posts: 2,136
As someone who has never been CK, will not be CK in the foreseeable future, and has no close connections to anyone who is a CK...I would say, uh, not really. In my understanding, the benefits that CKs get are mostly fluff: hand-holding, SWUs that they probably can't use, and IRROPs treatment. As a mere peasant who is supposed to be in awe of the aspirational CK benefits, whenever I see them written about, they strike me as notably underwhelming.
I'd think that bumping customers who spend a gajillion dollars with AA up into unsold, unused F seats at the expense of some award tickets would be, saying this as someone at whose expense the loss of said award seats is likely to come, a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
I'd think that bumping customers who spend a gajillion dollars with AA up into unsold, unused F seats at the expense of some award tickets would be, saying this as someone at whose expense the loss of said award seats is likely to come, a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
